Senator the Hon Don Farrell

Tom Connell: Welcome back. Australia's completed another trade deal, this time with the UAE. And joining me now is the Trade and Tourism Minister

Tom Connell: Welcome back. Australia's completed another trade deal, this time with the UAE. And joining me now is the Trade and Tourism Minister, Don Farrell. Appreciate your time. Interesting that you noted - we did this, we did this quickly, we're willing to negotiate, we're not the problem. A little hint towards the EU, maybe, that one?

Minister for Trade: Well, we remain open to have discussions with any country that would like to enter a free trade agreement with Australia. Our whole strategy since coming to government is diversification. So, the more we can negotiate and reach agreement with other countries, the better this country is going to be.

Tom Connell: So, did you find with the EU, compared to any other country or system, I guess, or bloc, that there were too many areas they said, if you don't do this, it's not happening. Too many red flags, if you like?

Minister for Trade: With the UAE?

Tom Connell: With the EU.

Minister for Trade: With the EU, look, the difficulty with the EU, and this is a problem they've had with every one of their agreements, is their farm sector. You know, we were looking for a good deal for our farmers into the EU. The offer never came. Contrast that with what we've done with the UAE this week - we're getting all of our sheep meat, all of our beef, all of our agricultural products into the UAE tariff free. 99 per cent of all of our products are going to be entering the UAE tariff free. That's a really good deal for Australia.

Tom Connell: So, in the trade deal as well, there's a provision on promoting labour rights. Unions are pretty critical of this. I mean, it seems pretty token when the UAE is considered by many as a bastion, essentially, for modern day slavery.

Minister for Trade: Look, we have got a document that will be released. I'm very confident that when all of the parties look at that document, they'll be satisfied that this is a very good deal for Australia and for the United Arab Emirates. I'm very satisfied that the agreement that we have negotiated is the best standard that any country has negotiated with the UAE. We talk about the labour standards, but there's provision there for indigenous businesses to get good treatment under the UAE. There's a gender clause, there's a sustainability clause. So, this is a very, very good deal. And it ticks all the boxes in the sorts of things Australia wants to see in our free trade agreements.

Tom Connell: Okay, China, the big one to go there still on tariffs; rock lobster. China is now saying it wants new arrangements for testing and monitoring. Would we do that? And does this indicate this is many months away now at least?

Minister for Trade: Look, I hope it isn't Tom. This is the one remaining item that we have not been able to get back into the Chinese market. You'll recall when we came to government more than two years ago, there was $20 billion worth of trade impediments. We've whittled that away now to something less than $1 billion. Lobster remains the only outstanding product that we haven't had been able to get in.

Tom Connell: Would you have an issue with testing and monitoring and how quickly could it get up?

Minister for Trade: Look, these are issues for our agriculture department and of course, discussions with the Chinese equivalent. We're going to do whatever we need to do to get our product, our very good rock lobsters, back into the Chinese market.

Tom Connell: Do you see this as legitimate or is this just keeping part of Australia in the freezer for longer?

Minister for Trade: It's not up to us to make decisions about what rules China applies for the introduction of our products. But what I want to see is all of the restrictions lifted on our lobsters coming into China. And I'm confident that based on all the discussions I've had, remember, I've had eight meetings now with my Chinese counterparts -

Tom Connell: It's happening, you've still got confidence this will happen?

Minister for Trade: Yeah, look, I've got confidence. We've got -

Tom Connell: Soon, this year? People love a bit of rock lobster during Christmas I'm told.

Minister for Trade: Look, I've made a few predictions, so I'm reluctant -

Tom Connell: We love predictions here.

Minister for Trade: All right, then soon.

Tom Connell: By Christmas?

Minister for Trade: By Christmas, yeah.

Tom Connell: Okay. All right. We got there. Electoral reform. So, a few interesting aspects to this. Capping spending per seat. So, do you have an idea what the cap would be per seat and why? Why is this needed?

Minister for Trade: This is needed because democracy is under attack all around the world right now. We've seen wars in the Middle East, wars in Europe. We want our system, which is one of the best systems in the world, to be even better. We need greater transparency. We may need greater accountability, but we also need ordinary people to be able to run for Parliament without having billionaires backing their campaigns. So, this is all about making sure that ordinary Australians get the opportunity to participate in our great electoral system. And it's all about ensuring that the Westminster system, which for 125 years at the federal level has been very, very good for Australia, continues.

Tom Connell: So, can't you see advantage though, when you say you need everyday people to be able to run, if there's a cap on a seat, say of, I don't know, $2 million, regardless, if an individual independent is running, that's their cap. If you're from a major party, you've got your $2 million plus the national spend. You know, people see ads from - about the Prime Minister, about what Labor's doing. That's not actually a fair fight in terms of what exposure they get to ads in that situation, is it?

Minister for Trade: This is all about trying to implement fairness into the system, transparency, accountability and limiting the cost of elections. The costs are skyrocketing. At the last election, Clive Palmer spent $117 million.

Tom Connell: Now, I can understand his spend and perhaps wanting to stop that, but if he spends that across the nation, this wouldn't affect that, would it? If he's not spending it on one seat, he can spend whatever he wants.

Minister for Trade: Well, just wait and see the legislation. It's not far away now, Tom.

Tom Connell: So, would you actually limit an individual's amount to spend regardless, not just a per seat basis?

Minister for Trade: So, we will come up with a comprehensive plan to put downward pressure on the cost of Australian elections, but making it clear that ordinary Australians can participate in the electoral system without having millionaires or billionaires backing their campaigns.

Tom Connell: But you'd look at capping just an individual spend, not just a per seat but a per election basis?

Minister for Trade: We are going to have a very comprehensive plan to ensure that there's that downward pressure on the cost.

Tom Connell: Well, then the downward pressure doesn't help. It's not like a cost of living thing, it's a political party thing. Can you, my earlier point, would you concede if you're an individual and it's just you, and you're running for one seat, and you're running against a major party, that just counting your spend for the seat isn't really fair, that major party also has a national and a state spend?

Minister for Trade: I think the scheme that we have developed is going to be groundbreaking. It's going to be fair and it's going to apply to equally to everybody. I think you'll find that, on the basis of that, this will strengthen our democracy and not weaken it.

Tom Connell: All right. I feel like probably I need the details to push this along. So, I'm sure you'll be back once we have the details there.

Minister for Trade: I'd love to.

Tom Connell: Number of seats just finally. So, Bob Hawke shifted it from 125 to the current number in 1984. We're long overdue to increase. I know this doesn't sound popular, more politicians, but the electorates are too big, aren't they? We're overdue to do this. Will this happen? Will you put a proposal for more seats during the next term of Parliament?

Minister for Trade: Look, what I can say is we won't be putting up proposal in this term of government.

Tom Connell: What about next term?

Minister for Trade: We'll worry about the next term after the next election. But you're right, the size of these electorates has dramatically increased since Bob Hawke increased the numbers.

Tom Connell: Are they too big to manage now for an MP?

Minister for Trade: They're a lot bigger. But of course, as a government, we increased the number of staff that politicians have to deal with their constituents. So, we've recognised that there is an issue here, but that won't be an issue that we're going to be dealing with in this set of reforms.

Tom Connell: But is it on the table or are you saying the staff, more staff can manage a bigger electorate?

Minister for Trade: What I'm saying is, for this term, we're not contemplating any increase in the number of politicians.

Tom Connell: And you don't want to be the Minister to say more politicians, maybe?

Minister for Trade: Well, I want to be the Minister who says, for the moment, we are not proceeding with any proposals to increase the number of politicians.

Tom Connell: All right, it would make election nights harder. So, I should probably stop asking for it, but I'm a masochist. Minister, appreciate your time today. Thank you.

Minister for Trade: Thanks, Tom. Nice to see you.