Senator the Hon Don Farrell

Greg Jennett, host: Trade Minister and the government's Deputy Senate Leader, Don Farrell, is back with us. Welcome to the program once again, Don. Good to have you back. I won't spend too much time on housing because there's much we want to get to today. But there was no success, no breakthrough for the government earlier today. With the Housing Australia Future Fund, it was actually you who told the Senate that you could treat the failure to pass that as a first phase towards a trigger for a double dissolution election. Is the government contemplating that on these bills?

Minister for Trade, Don Farrell: Look, what the government wants to do, Greg, is to get this legislation passed as quickly as possible. The legislation that didn't pass today, well, it means 40 thousand Australians aren't going to get access to their own homes. We want to see the Coalition and the Greens come to their senses. This is a vital issue for lots and lots of Australians. They have to pass our legislation.

Greg Jennett: You do have that option, though, of declaring it, and you did that, as I say personally, previously. Why wouldn't you use it this time?

Minister for Trade: Look, we just want to see a commonsense approach by the Coalition and the Greens. This issue is too important to play politics with. People are missing out on their own homes. Here's an opportunity to do it. As we discussed in the Senate today, this policy is in fact the Greens' policy. It's the policy they took to the last election. We just want them to support that policy and get this house construction moving.

Greg Jennett: Have you got any manoeuvres left up your sleeve? Because as we speak, it's a motion of the Senate to delay this until 26 November. Is that when we next come back to this?

Minister for Trade: Look, I hope it isn't. I just hope that the Greens come to their senses, and the Coalition – the Coalition are equally guilty here. It's a Coalition-Green alliance that's blocking more housing for particularly young Australians. We want them to come to their senses, understand just how important this issue is right now and vote with the government to get this legislation through.

Greg Jennett: All right, noted. We'll see if that moves anyone. It hasn't all week, of course. Let's move on to trade. And you announced yesterday the end of negotiations, so essentially the clinching of a United Arab Emirates-Australia free trade deal. You will have seen the trade union movement says UAE is among the most repressive countries any Australian government's ever done a bilateral trade agreement with. Are you rewarding the exploitation of Indian and Bangladeshi workers, particularly construction workers, so pivotal and vital in the UAE economy?

Minister for Trade: Greg, we have to make decisions in our own national interest. The UAE is our closest partner in that part of the world. This trade agreement is good for Australia, but more importantly, it's good for Australian workers. The drop in tariffs mean that we're going to get more of our products into the United Arab Emirates and it means that the products we buy from the United Arab Emirates will come into Australia at a cheaper price. So, it's a win-win for both countries.

Greg Jennett: You've really highlighted on the investment front, invited more than highlighted, potential investment of up to $2.5 trillion. That's the entire size of the sovereign wealth fund of UAE, so, I think you're talking only about a portion of that into Australia's critical minerals. If they go ahead, would they qualify for all the subsidies and benefits that Australia's setting up through Future Made in Australia?

Minister for Trade: Well, they'll come in under the same terms and conditions as any other country would. I in fact texted a copy of the ABC report on that issue to my counterpart yesterday afternoon where you talked about the fact that all of this investment will be coming into Australia. And his comment back was, yes it will. So, already the United Arab Emirates are thinking about just how they'll invest in our renewable industry. Last week I released a list of 55 shovel-ready projects in the renewable space, whether it be lithium or rare earths. There's lots and lots of projects that are ready to go in Australia. We're a big country with a small population. We need investment from overseas. We encourage it.

Greg Jennett: Not from everywhere though, right? You will triage those potential offerings, obviously, including China, against the vast number of European countries, now middle eastern countries also lining up.

Minister for Trade: Look, the good news, I think the good news is that we've either got the most or the second most of all of the resources that are going to go into the renewable future. We've got – in fact, a way to describe it, I think, is an overabundance of all of these products. We want to share that with the rest of the world. We're the lucky country here, but we want to see the rest of the world move to net zero. We want to be part of that. And the more countries that we can get to help us with the capital that we need to process these products, then the better, from our point of view.

Greg Jennett: Alright, I did just mention China in relation to critical minerals. A bit of an update on lobsters if you can, Don. Back in July, Chinese customs authorities communicated to the Agriculture Department here a new set of testing, registration and audit procedures. I believe officials from that department, not your department, but Agriculture, are travelling to China this week. You'd expressed great optimism back in June, I think it was, that this was approaching resolution. So, are the Chinese slowing and frustrating what were very high hopes you held for a resumption of that trade?

Minister for Trade: Well, I think you've got to look back over the past two years, Greg. We started with $20 billion worth of trade impediments. We've now reduced that to less than $1 billion. And as you say, lobster is one of those. I have been optimistic, based on all of my eight conversations now with my Chinese counterpart, that these issues will be resolved. I'm still confident that the issues will be resolved. And as you say, we are continuing those discussions on a regular basis, and I'm confident that one of these days I'll be able to come into this studio and say, Greg, it's fixed.

Greg Jennett: Well, your confidence has generally been rewarded, I know not with the Europeans, but we're not going to go there today. Don Farrell, we can't let you go without a quick one on electoral reform. We've been following it as closely as we can. That would include caps on donations, spending and general transparency improvements. Many of us might have expected you to have publicly announced a deal. What's the delay?

Minister for Trade: We're not far away on that one too, Greg. Look, in a sense, it's already out there, what we're going to do - it's in the JSCM report. The legislation has been more complex than we first thought, but we're very close to it. And as you say, we want a more transparent electoral system. We want a more accountable electoral system. And you shouldn't have to be a millionaire or a billionaire to run for office. We've seen Clive Palmer in the last couple of days taking Australia to court on issues that he doesn't like.

Greg Jennett: And that's something you want to really nail down against the possibility of a High Court challenge.

Minister for Trade: Correct. Correct. Yes. No, I'm very focused on that.

Greg Jennett: I understand you would be, and we'd love to talk to you about it when it does get to that point of public release. Don Farrell, always appreciate you creating time for us, particularly in a Senate sitting week. We'll do it again soon.

Minister for Trade: Thanks, Greg.