Senator the Hon Katy Gallagher

PATRICIA KARVELAS: The Albanese government will move to keep the National Broadband Network in public hands, introducing fresh legislation as it battles to get existing policies through the parliament. The Government has also renewed its pressure on the Greens to back its Help to Buy housing scheme while also bargaining to get its Future Made in Australia legislation through the Senate, but it’s the conflict in the Middle East that continues to cause, well, the most rancour, with Opposition leader Peter Dutton rejecting a motion from the Prime Minister commemorating the anniversary of the October 7 attack.

GRAB: We have put to this Prime Minister a more than reasonable position, and the Prime Minister has rejected that position for his own political domestic advancement. And that has been recognised by millions of Australians and for that the Prime Minister should be condemned.

KARVELAS: Opposition leader Peter Dutton speaking there. Katy Gallagher is the Minister for Finance and the Manager of Government Business in the Senate. Welcome to the program.

SENATOR THE HON KATY GALLAGHER, MINISTER FOR FINANCE: Thanks for having me on, PK.

KARVELAS: Let’s start with those comments from Peter Dutton. Why couldn’t a bipartisan position be reached?

GALLAGHER: Well, unfortunately I think that question has to be asked of Mr Dutton, of Peter Dutton, because I know the lengths that were gone to to try and reach agreement with the Opposition to have a bipartisan motion. And they were extensive and unfortunately, you know, agreement couldn’t be reached in the end. But our preferred – the Prime Minister’s preferred approach – was to reach agreement with the Opposition and he certainly sought to do that. At the end of the day, Mr Dutton made a decision not to support that and I think that’s unfortunate in terms of how the Parliament could have projected and made a statement in respect of the atrocities that happened on October 7 last year.

KARVELAS: But the Government had an element calling for a ceasefire in that motion. You know the Opposition doesn’t support that, so why insist on that element being in there?

GALLAGHER: Well, this is the position we have taken for many months now. It’s in recognition of the loss of a large amount of civilian lives in that region. It’s the position of a number of governments around the world, including the US and the UK. You know, key allies of ours. And I find it unusual that you would have an Opposition that wants to see the conflict continue and the continued loss of civilian lives. So, I think a statement about a ceasefire and calling for a de-escalation has been part of our policy and our position for months and I think it probably reflects the majority of the Australian people who want to see an end to the loss of civilian life in that region.

KARVELAS: But you know it’s not the Opposition’s position, so wouldn’t it have been a better strategy to commemorate October 7 so that you could reach agreement and send a message?

GALLAGHER: Well, I think that was the aim. That genuinely was the aim and there was extensive dialogue between the Opposition and the Government about how to ensure that there was a bipartisan motion that could be supported. That’s what happened in the days after the October 7^th last year, when the parliament was able to provide that bipartisanship. And in these kind of discussions where you are trying to negotiate a motion, it isn’t unusual for there to be a bit of give and take on both sides to accept a motion that overall stood for the parliament. That wasn’t able to be done yesterday and that’s regrettable, but I think it speaks to some of the politics of division that are being played here locally about an awful conflict that’s happening internationally.

KARVELAS: Meanwhile in the Senate, we saw the Greens and Lidia Thorpe attacking the Government. Greens Senators held signs calling for Israel to be sanctioned. Are you being wedged on this big issue that clearly, you know, we’ve seen such big protests? There’s a lot of anger at the Government from the Jewish community and also the anti-war community.

GALLAGHER: Well, I think the Senate yesterday, I mean, in a sense, spoke to the fact that the Government’s position is really seeking I think to try and unite the country and bring the country together and not have this social division play out, you know, domestically. And on the one side we had the Opposition who you know, have a particular view. And on the other, we have the Greens which have the opposite view. And in the middle you have the Government that’s saying, you know, absolutely condemning Hamas and the role – the October 7 atrocities that happened, calling for the release of hostages but also recognising that there has been a significant loss of life from Palestine and calling for a ceasefire. I think our position reflects a mature, responsible government, and we’ve got friction on either side of the political spectrum. And you know, it’s our job to continue to make decisions in the interests of our communities, as broad as they are and as diverse as they are, and not be pulled into the politics of division that have been played on either side of us.

KARVELAS: I want to move to some of the legislative agenda the Government has, Katy Gallagher. And if you’re just tuning in, you’re listening to Radio National Breakfast, the Finance Minister, Katy Gallagher, is with us. The Government’s going to introduce legislation today to keep the NBN publicly owned. Why?

GALLAGHER: Well, we believe the NBN is critical infrastructure. And it’s certainly become even more critical as we increasingly move our lives into the digital space. It already reaches almost 12.5 million premises across Australia, and I think about 8.5 million homes and businesses are connected to the NBN. We think it should remain in public ownership, ensuring that people have fast, reliable and affordable internet now, but also in an ongoing sense, and that we also make sure that people can continue to afford it. And so we have introduced legislation today which will make that a legislative commitment, rather than a statement of expectations, which the Minister for Communications and I issued to NBN I think in late October, late 2022, which said that we saw the NBN will remain in public hands for the foreseeable future. This strengthens that commitment, removes any uncertainty for the company itself and certainly from a cost-of-living measure, make sure that we’ve a got critical infrastructure in public hands that will remain affordable and accessible to all into the future.

KARVELAS: Elsewhere, you’re battling to get key bills through the Parliament, including your Help to Buy housing legislation and the Future Made in Australia bill. Are you hoping for a deal – I’m about to speak to the Greens leader. Are you in any meaningful negotiations that can actually achieve a result to get these two bills through?

GALLAGHER: Well, we continue to engage and will continue to engage with the Greens political party as we do with the Opposition to try and navigate a path through the Senate. As I’ve said before, the Senate, you know, is a minority chamber. So, the Government has to work with other Senators to get our legislation through. Sometimes that’s with the Greens, sometimes that’s with the Opposition. And depending on where one of those sits, we look for the pathway. But increasingly, we’re seeing the Opposition and the Greens vote together to block things, like they’ve been doing – they did it with the Housing Australia Future Fund, they’re now doing it with Help to Buy and certainly, as you said, on Future Made in Australia, where I – I can’t imagine why we have anyone in the Parliament that is opposed to a future made in Australia, but there you go, we do at the moment. So, we’ll continue, PK, to negotiate and talk with anyone in the Senate that genuinely wants to engage and see that legislation passed.

KARVELAS: The Greens say they’re open to a deal. They’ve dropped some demands, things like a national rent freeze, publicly owned housing agency. So, what concessions is Labor prepared to make?

GALLAGHER: Well, those discussions will be ongoing. But we are committed to the legislation that we bring to the Parliament. So, sometimes those discussions are about other pieces of legislation. I see that the Greens have changed their position, where they’ve been calling for certain things, or they look like they’ve changed their position –

KARVELAS: Well if they have, doesn’t that mean the Government now needs to take a step in their direction, too, so that a deal can be achieved?

GALLAGHER: Well, as I said, PK, we will continue to talk with the Greens political party. Sometimes the Greens drop a request on a particular piece of legislation, there’s other requests – so, we’ll consider whatever that might be. But we have worked hard in the housing space. I mean, we’ve got the most comprehensive housing plan of any federal government ever to try and deal with the pressure in the housing market. And we’ve been frustrated at every turn by the Greens and the Opposition. And that has ensured that legislation like the Housing Australia Future Fund was delayed for a year, because of the performance around that. The delaying and carry-on that went on around that. Now we’re getting some funds out the door, the same on Help to Buy. We could have dealt with this legislation. Unfortunately, the Opposition and the Greens voted to delay it and not allow it to even be debated for two months. So, if they’ve changed their position, the Greens know our door is always open.

KARVELAS: Just finally, abortion is on the ballot, it seems, in Queensland. The Katter [Australian] Party wants to repeal the abortion laws. There are several LNP MPs – it’s not their official position at a leadership level – but who see it that way too. You are the Minister for Women, too. What do you make of abortion being a political issue, an electoral issue, in Australia?

GALLAGHER: Well, I look forward to the day when women’s health isn’t a political football that’s used and pulled out at election time. I think there’s been a lot of legislative reform, rightly, across states and territories. And it is primarily an issue for states and territories around abortion legislation, to make sure it’s not a criminal offence and to put in place the legislative framework that allows women to make choices about their own reproductive health or involve doctors as appropriate. And I really think it’s a matter between a woman and her health professional, and it’s unfortunate we see it rise up and down at election times, but I look forward to a day when we don’t have that political football brought out and used, and that this is treated, really as it should be, as a health matter between a woman and her health professional.

KARVELAS: Katy Gallagher, thanks for your time.