Senator the Hon Katy Gallagher

SABRA LANE, HOST: The Federal Minister for Finance and Women, Katy Gallagher, joined me earlier. Finance Minister, thanks for talking to AM.

SENATOR THE HON KATY GALLAGHER, MINISTER FOR FINANCE: Thanks for having me on, Sabra.

LANE: Your Senate colleague, Fatima Payman, says she’s been exiled and encouraged to quit Labor. Has the Prime Minister asked her to quit?

GALLAGHER: Well, I mean these really are matters for Senator Payman now. She’s taken some decisions and you know really stood outside the parliamentary Labor party caucus and these matters are really in her hands now. I know from my own dealings with Senator Payman and others that a lot of people have reached out and tried to wrap around support for her and talk with her, so I certainly don’t agree with some of the language she had in her statement yesterday.

LANE: Is there a pathway back for Senator Payman to the Labor party or has too much been said in the past 48 hours to make it an irreconcilable split?

GALLAGHER: Well I don’t think so. I mean, again, the Prime Minister made it very clear that when Senator Payman could say that she would stand with her caucus colleagues on positions that had been determined in caucus, she would be welcomed back. That again really is a matter for Senator Payman now. These are decisions that she has taken knowing quite clearly what the consequences would be. And you know she’s continued to make those decisions. So, I certainly – and I know a lot of my colleagues – would want her to remain with the Labor caucus, but she also has to give a commitment that some of the decisions she’s taken in the last week wouldn’t be repeated.

LANE: Do you think it’d be appropriate for the Senator to remain in the upper house and not be a Labor party member?

GALLAGHER: Well, again, that’s a matter for Senator Payman. You know, Senator Payman was elected as a member of the Labor government, as a Labor senator for WA. That is how she got into the Senate. But she’s there now and these are decisions that she can only make for herself and I know that a lot of her colleagues who have worked closely with her, you know, are desperately trying to reach out and provide support where they can and talk with her. But these are decisions that, you know, she has made for herself.

LANE: Labor heralded Senator Payman’s election as a great moment for diversity, for a young Muslim from Western Australia and a woman. Does this episode show that diversity has its limits? How worried are you that this will isolate the ALP from thousands of voters?

GALLAGHER: Well look our diversity is our strength. You know – going right back in history, the Labor party has, you know, always supported diversity and I think our election in 2022 to government delivered the most diverse caucus ever. That’s something we’re really proud of. And you know I think these are decisions that Senator Payman has made for her own reasons and I don’t think it reflects at all upon the diversity in the caucus. We have, you know – I’m very proud to be a member of this caucus and it brings perspectives from right around the country from different cultures, from you know First Nations communities all the way to new arrivals to our country. And that’s a real strength for our government.

LANE: To the cost-of-living measures, the relief starting this week might be just a dim memory if the Reserve Bank lifts interest rates next month. Would a rate rise be electoral poison for the ALP?

GALLAGHER: Well, these are matters for the Reserve Bank. I mean, our position has been – and the decisions the government has taken – has been really about how can we provide some cost-of-living help without putting any upward pressure on inflation. And that’s why the decisions we’ve taken in the budget reflect that. Carefully calibrated, targeted forms of assistance that will roll from 1 July – so yesterday. People will start seeing that come in through their pay packets and on their energy bills and we think it will make a difference. But those matters around the interest rates really are a matter for the Bank. What we do know is that the interest rates today, you know, up to this point, have hurt household budgets, without a doubt.

LANE: But hiking of rates further would be politically toxic for Labor?

GALLAGHER: Well, I’ll let the commentators commentate on that. Our focus is on what we can do to support households through this time and that’s why the decisions we took in the budget reflect that. So, people will see that. Whether it be the tax cuts, energy bills, you know, the cheaper medicines, the extension of PPL, all of these programs and measures funded through the budget has really been focused about what we can do to make sure that we’re supporting people through this time.

LANE: With your Minister for Women’s hat on, the new Governor-General yesterday mentioned there’s a concern for a rising lack of respect for women and the shrinking opportunities for some men. Are you hearing those sentiments as well?

GALLAGHER: Yes. You know, I thought it was a really powerful speech from the new Governor-General. I was privileged to be in the chamber listening to it. And I don’t think it was any surprise that Her Excellency touched on these matters. You know, she has dedicated a large part of her career to advocating around equality for women, but I also think recognising that men have constraints on them – particularly when it comes to sharing you know caring and parenting responsibilities is also something we should be looking at.

LANE: Why do you think there is a rising lack of respect for women?

GALLAGHER: Well, I think it’s a combination of many things, Sabra. We’d probably need longer than this interview to go through it. You know, it’s about you know norms, gender norms, continued views about what women’s roles are, it’s obviously the problem with violence – at its hardest point when women lose their lives and they still do too often. I think the role of social media, you know and I know everyone kind of raises that as a problem but I think it genuinely is, about information, particularly being provided to young men about how to deal or how to relate to women. I think that’s a problem and it’s going to require a concerted effort right across governments and community to deal with it.

LANE: Senator Gallagher, thanks for joining AM.

GALLAGHER: Thanks very much, Sabra.