Senator the Hon Mathias Cormann

FRAN KELLY: The Finance Minister Mathias Cormann join us in a moment, but first here is the Shadow Home Affairs Minister Kristina Keneally questioning whether the Government has changed its position on New Zealand and their offer to resettle 150 refugees.

KRISTINA KENEALLY [EXCERPT]: The Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, and the Minister for Home Affairs, Peter Dutton have repeatedly ruled out doing a deal with New Zealand. I think there's a genuine question to be asked here has the Australian Government, has the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, changed his Government's policy? Has he done a back flip? Is he now going to accept the New Zealand offer to take refugees off Manus and Nauru and has he done that in order to secure Senator Lambie's support for the repeal of medivac? 

FRAN KELLY: Mathias Cormann, welcome to Insiders. 

MATHIAS CORMANN: Good morning. 

FRAN KELLY: Well, that's the question, isn't it. Has the Prime Minister given Jacqui Lambie an assurance that the Government will take up New Zealand's resettlement offer? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: Let me be very clear in response to that question that Kristina Keneally put there, the Government has not changed any policy on border protection or resettlement arrangements or anything else in order to secure Jacqui Lambie's vote. What we have done in response to issues that Jacqui raised with us is provide detailed classified briefings to ensure she was fully across what the Government was doing and why. At the end of that process, clearly, Senator Lambie was satisfied with what the Government was doing and was satisfied that the repeal of the medivac laws was necessary. 

FRAN KELLY: I understand there was more than detailed security briefings. There was also a letter from the Prime Minister to Jacqui Lambie laying out the conditions, as she said, that they have agreed upon. She said she's more than satisfied with the conditions. Did that letter contain an agreement that the Australian Government would agree to and seek to activate the New Zealand deal? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: That is not quite what she said. So I think there is a level of verballing going on here. There is a level of verballing going on ...interrupted 

FRAN KELLY: No, that's the quote. She said I am more than satisfied that the conditions are now in place to allow medivac to be repealed. 

MATHIAS CORMANN: Because of the detailed information, the detailed briefings she received. She was certainly satisfied. That is certainly true. We did provide Senator Lambie with information. Of course we did. That is a matter of public record. But let me say again, we have not changed any policy in relation to border protection or resettlement arrangements or anything else in order to secure Senator Lambie's vote. When it comes to resettlement arrangements it is a matter of public record that our focus is on resettling people from Nauru to the United States. Those resettlement arrangements with the United States were undermined by the existence of the medivac law, something else we were able to explain in some detail. Our commitment is to continue to pursue resettlement arrangements in a way that does not start the boats coming again. We are committed to pursuing resettlement arrangements in a way that does not undermine our strong border protection arrangements. That is also something that we explained in some detail.

FRAN KELLY: Alright. We heard that many times, but we're still not clear what it is that Jacqui Lambie has heard that absolutely satisfied her. Let me ask it this way - is it current Government policy to accept the New Zealand resettlement offer if the lifetime ban bill is passed? Is that Government policy, is the question? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: It is current Government policy to resettle people from Nauru and to resettle as many of them as possible to the United States… interrupted  

FRAN KELLY: Sorry to interrupt you Minister - it hasn't been Government policy in the past to accept the New Zealand deal. In the past the Home Affairs Minister, Peter Dutton, has said that was a bad option. It was a backdoor. It would open, give the green light to people smugglers. Is it currently the Government's position to accept the New Zealand offer on the proviso that the lifetime ban bill is passed? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: It is currently the Government's position as it has been all the way through to resettle people from Nauru in a way that does not give the green light to people smugglers. That does not start the people smugglers sending people to Australia again. We are totally focused on resettling people to the United States. These are arrangements that were severely undermined by Labor's bad medivac laws. That is our focus now. We have always said that any resettlement arrangements that Australia pursued had  to be pursued in a way that does not start that terrible people smuggling business again. 

FRAN KELLY: I understand that, you told us that several times, but let me ask you then, if you can tell me your view. Do you believe the New Zealand resettlement offer would restart the people smugglers, would send an agree light? Or does the Government not have that view anymore? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: My view is the Government’s view. That is that we should resettle people in the United States. That is the agreement that we have reached with the United States… interrupted 

FRAN KELLY: And not in New Zealand? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: Again, my view is that we need to continue to pursue resettlement arrangements in a way that protects the integrity of our borders. That is what we have been doing. That is what we will continue to do into the future. There has been no change …  interrupted 

FRAN KELLY: Minister, everyone listening and watching can hear that you're not going to the New Zealand option. What is the secrecy about? Jacqui Lambie said she for national security reasons couldn't explain to the Senate why she's decided to repeal the bill. What is the secrecy, so secret that Members voting on this bill in the Parliament don't know the terms of it and the public don't know what their elected officials have agreed to? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: Fran, it is very simple. There is a reason for classified information. The reason some information is classified is to protect our national security. The Government, took Senator Lambie into our confidence and provided her with classified information. Of course she is not then at liberty to divulge that classified information. We are very grateful to Senator Lambie that she has respected the nature of the information that she has been provided, because to do otherwise would be putting Australia's national security and border integrity at risk. Quite rightly, Senator Lambie has agreed not to do that. 

FRAN KELLY: One last go on this, are there national security issues in accepting the New Zealand resettlement offer? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: Whatever we do in terms of resettlement arrangements has to be pursued in a way that does not start the boats coming again. That is something we have explained in some great detail to Senator Lambie and to others. So we have not, I say it again, we have not agreed to any policy change on border protection, on resettlement arrangements or on anything else in order to secure Senator Lambie's vote. The only thing we have done is to provide her with an undertaking that we would continue to implement the Government's policies unchanged. 

FRAN KELLY: Alright. Minister, let's turn to the economy. This week we got the latest national accounts. The Government has pumped billions of dollars of tax cuts into the economy during the last quarter and yet growth slowed in that quarter. That wasn't the expectation. What went wrong? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: Growth over the twelve months to the end of the September quarter increased slightly compared to the end of the June quarter … interrupted  

FRAN KELLY: But it's slowed in the last quarter. 

MATHIAS CORMANN: Growth in the September quarter this year was slightly higher than growth in the September quarter last year. But more importantly… interrupted 

FRAN KELLY: But it was slower than the previous quarter. 

MATHIAS CORMANN: The previous quarter was upgraded, retrospectively upgraded, to 0.6 per cent. The point here is the Australian economy continues to grow. Other economies around the world are shrinking. Our economy continues to grow despite the significant global economic headwinds. I would put it to you this way, our economy today remains stronger than it would have been if at the last election people had chosen $387 billion in higher taxes as was proposed by the Labor party … interrupted 

FRAN KELLY: Minister, I would put it to you this way, the growth is positive, but it's slower, significantly slower than forecast and when we spoke on this program three months ago you said then it was too premature to consider the impact of $15 billion of income tax refunds. That is your quote. One quarter on the verdict is in in, it is now clear they didn't pack the punch you were hoping for. What measures is the Government considering if growth doesn’t pick up? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: I disagree with you. Firstly, in the September quarter, the growth in this disposal income of 2.5 per cent was the highest growth in disposal income in more than a decade. Disposable income … interrupted 

FRAN KELLY: Because of tax cuts and interest rate cuts. 

MATHIAS CORMANN: Disposable income has increased by more than 5 per cent over the year. We are confident that over time that will contribute to a strengthening in the economy. If you look across the spectrum, lower interest rates, lower taxes, continued high investment in infrastructure, a pick up in resources sector, stabilisation in the property market, a very high participation rate, record female participation rate, and indeed real wages growth at the long-term average. All of these things combined will help us continue to strengthen the economy moving forward around. In this last fortnight we have legislated another free trade agreement, three free trade agreements, with Indonesia, Peru and Hong Kong, which will help our exporting businesses get better access to markets around the world  ...interrupted 

FRAN KELLY: I understand this Minister, but this is a discussion we have been having in the context of stimulus that. That's come from comments, a number of comments now from the Reserve Bank Governor. Yes, people have higher disposal income, they have had interest rate cuts and mortgage rate cuts but they're not disposing of it. Do we have time to wait? Because the figures have shown us recently unemployment going up, growth slowing, retail spending a record lows, wages and productivity low if not stalled. Is there time to wait or should you be now considering other measures? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: Employment growth continues to be stronger than the long-term average, continues to be stronger than what is in our Budget forecast. So I think you are being a bit … interrupted 

FRAN KELLY: Do you think people are feeling that, Minister? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: I think that people understand that there are issues in the global economy. There have been successive downgrades in the global economic growth outlook. That has implications for Australia. One of the reasons I suspect why people are increasing their savings rate in order to strengthen their personal position for the future is because of their perception of what is happening in the world. But again, Australia comparatively, if you look at it on an international context, continues to perform comparatively well. Our economy continues to grow when many others are shrinking. 

FRAN KELLY: Minister, as we have this conversation, we're heading into summer. There's currently more than 100 bushfires burning around the country. How is the Government planning to respond to this unprecedented fire season in terms of more resources, more support for people and what do you say to all those Australians who are frightened now by what's going on around them? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: We are providing all of the support we can to support the efforts in various States where bushfires are taking place… interrupted 

FRAN KELLY: Is that it? There is not a special package planned? No announcement coming? 

MATHIAS CORMANN: If and when additional support is required, then of course we would consider that. But right now as we speak, we planned for this bushfire season. We have put significant measures in place. We have put significant measures in place for the future too to better address these sorts of emergencies into the future. 

FRAN KELLY: Mathias Cormann, thank you very much for joining us again on Insiders. 

MATHIAS CORMANN: Always good to talk to you.